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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
I towed my 41ft TT up to 80mph with only a 235HP 7.3 PSD Excursion
I have also towed my 12,000 pound Gn at over 85 once by mistake passing a slower vehicle, with my 300 HP CTD. I didn't even use all 300.
I know that towing with an underpowered and unstable SUV or truck is not near as good as a more powerful, low and lightweight car, but since we have a large load I guess we just have to do what we can to get by.
I guess one plus is that I don't worry about my non unibody vehicle coming apart from the stress of mile after mile of bump and grind towing my trailer.
I put over 80,000 miles on a unibody TranSport in 3 years, more than half of that towing a 3500# pop-up.
Never had a bit of problems W/the TV including brakes or unibody. I wasn't evrn using a WD hitch in those days.
W/the price of gas going to over $6 a gallon in the near future, I think attitudes will change when it come to "bigger is better": when it comes to TVs.
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PowerWagon896
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05/20/08 02:48pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
The Impala is available W/a 5.3 V8, but the FWD application left me cold.
I understand folks have a persomnal preference when it comes to FWD or RWD and that is fine. I have towed with both and really liked the FWD for the following reasons and explanation.
Why FWD makes a good TV.
Also... Saw a cool set up today coming back from our weekend camping trip. It was a Lincoln LS towing a A Liner Expedition. Also a Volvo sedan towing a large POP up. It passed up doing about 70MPH. It pulled in front of us and looked interesting. All you could see was the pop up as the car was lower than the trailer. Must have handled great with the low centre of gravilty.
I towed for years W/a FWD Pontiac TranSport.
The only time I ran into problems was when pulling up steep hills (leaving & exiting campsites or campgraouns) in gravel or other limited traction situations.
FWD has a tendancy to spin as the weight shifts to the rear going uphill.
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PowerWagon896
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05/20/08 02:43pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
I got a reply to my PM over on Airforums from "Mr T".
He said that the hidden receiver could be easily modified to withstand 800-1000# spring bars.
I will probably wait for the off season if the present setup will suffice for the time being.
I understand what he proposed & I like the simple yet effective modification he has suggested..:C
BTW: I found a better picture of my old rig.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/PowerWagon896/DragSetup003.jpg
Hey that sounds great. It is common for them to beef up factory or weak units.
Also, I just got back from picking up our TT and noticed going the other way on the highway a newish Impala towing a trailer similar to yours. Wondering if it was a six or is there an V8 option in them now???
New Impala has a couple of 6 cylinders, one being a 3.9 liter V6 that will hit over 140 mph in police trim, (Michigan State Police tests) not civilian (governor limited top speed) trim and the Impala SS has a 5.3 liter V8, with 303 hp and displacement on demand.
Car and Driver tested the 2006 Impala SS with the 5.3 liter V8 and found it capable of these performance figures:
"...there's that 0-to-60 time of 5.6 seconds, the quarter-mile turns in 14.2 seconds at 101 mph, and the ungoverned top speed is 154 mph."
However it is a front wheel drive and IMO, needs to be AWD to handle that kind of power, better.
Yep, I work for General Motors & the reason I am driving 2 Dodges?
1. The Chevy standard cab has no room behind the seat, zero, nada, zilch & I have no use for short bed trucks so the extended cab was out.
2. General motors did not have a viable RWD sedan in 2006.
The Impala is available W/a 5.3 V8, but the FWD application left me cold.
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PowerWagon896
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05/16/08 09:44pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Fast Cars?
Bull. I own an LX (2007 Magnum R/T), and I'm kind of disappointed with the mileage. It has NEVER topped 22. The factory rating is 17/25.
Might be the way you drive.
Mine got about 24.8 when I 1st got it,
After mods, including cam & heads etc it got up to 28 MPG mark but then it dropped to 27 MPG when I swapped in the 3.06 SRT diff. This is cruising @ or near the 65 MPH speed limit.
Up the cruise to 75 MPH & it drops to 24 MPG.
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PowerWagon896
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05/16/08 09:38pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
I went over to Airforums, registered & sent a PM yo Andrew T.
I want to reatin the hidden feature, maybe he can cook something up.
In the mean time I'll see how the Mopar Hitch does.
Good move PW. No doubt Mt T. will have an interest in your cool combo and will have some tips.
I like the idea of the hidden hitch. Years ago I had a grocery getter 1977 Granada sport coupe. I built a 2" receiver that was located behind the licence plate. The licence plate was hinged at the bottom and was spring loaded in its normal position. To use the receiver I simply tilted the plate down in the horizontal position and inserted the draw bar. Worked great.
I got a reply to my PM over on Airforums from "Mr T".
He said that the hidden receiver could be easily modified to withstand 800-1000# spring bars.
I will probably wait for the off season if the present setup will suffice for the time being.
I understand what he proposed & I like the simple yet effective modification he has suggested..:C
BTW: I found a better picture of my old rig.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/PowerWagon896/DragSetup003.jpg
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PowerWagon896
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05/16/08 04:27pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
I will keep everyone posted on progress & how the Charger handles the slightly larger, taller & less aerodynamic TT.
Sounds good PW. Also as Caddy has suggested look into getting an upgraded custom receiver for the Charger. Last I read Can Am here in Ontario has built and installed over 20 receivers for your body type. They are heavy duty, flex free and state of the art in design technology.
They don't look that bad either. Here is a pic of mine...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/CF105/IMG_42267.jpg height=90 width=335
I went over to Airforums, registered & sent a PM yo Andrew T.
I want to reatin the hidden feature, maybe he can cook something up.
In the mean time I'll see how the Mopar Hitch does.
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PowerWagon896
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05/16/08 07:58am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
Those limitations are mostly dictated by tongue weight as there is no lack of power, stability, stopping & emergency maneuvering prowess.
The tongue weight limitation is a function of the hitch you have mounted to the car. Your low limit is because the hitch can't handle the additional stress of tightening the spring bars as needed to properly distribute weights over 380 pounds.
The 300 posted earlier in the thread had a custom hitch fitted that didn't have the same tongue weight restrictions.
Remember, when you use a WD system (especially true with when towing with a car) tongue weight becomes payload carried pretty evenly across both axles. If the hitch is no longer the weak link, you can carry as much tongue weight as you have payload available.
The truck guys know this is true, and think nothing of upgrading a hitch receiver as needed to carry higher tongue weights.
I think your equipment works just fine now for the trailer you have. But, if I was going to buy a Charger for a tow vehicle, I would skip the cute hidden Mopar hitch because of it's low tongue weight limitation and have a conventional class III hitch installed by a professional like Can-Am RV.
Since Wifey & I are of the "less is more" mindset, we don't feel a need for a substantially larger TT.
We have actually purchased an R-vision 24' Trail Sport W/a dinette slide. It is about the same dry weight as the 21' model pictured, but it has a bit more bias to tongue weight, being just a tad over 400#.
We love the wide open area that the slide gives us & the 24' length is more than ample. We like the short, maneuverability.
We picked up the trailer new @ below cost last fall. It is a dis-continued model.
The hitch height is a bit over 1" higher than what my WD hitch will accommodate on the Charger. I am getting the hitch modified for height.
In the mean time I have flipped the hitch over & repositioned the ball mount for the gas guzzling Power Wagon.
I might be able to get the hitch modified in time for some shakedown before the Memorial day week end, but the campground we are going to is pretty rugged & more along the Power Wagon's off road capabilities.
I will keep everone posted on progress & how the Charger handles the slightly larger, taller & less aerodynamic TT.
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PowerWagon896
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05/15/08 09:51pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
It's a cool setup. Anyone who wants to fight that can. But he gets more looks than most of the rest of us in our "inside the box" rigs.
I hear ya about the looks.
A mixture of shock, bewilderment, disbelief, pity & a lot of times scorn. The latter mostly by other RVers.
It's not the rig if you seek the approval of the masses but it does a fantastic job within it's limitations. Those limitations are mostly dictated by tongue weight as there is no lack of power, stabilty, stopping & emergency manuvering prowess. The set up stops sraight & quick in the wetest conditions & the lower profile of the TV bucks the wind better than less aerodynamic TVs.
Amd NO it won't pull a GN, 5er of 40' rear hitch trailer.
When I rolled into the traditional archery jamboree outside of Buffalo, NY, our set up spot was down a small grassy slope next to the woods. People offered their TVs to place the trailer for me. I declined of course.
When we arose Sunday I found that it had rained a little the night before & a down pour was looming. Again, people were offering assitance W/thier trucks to pull the trailer up the grade.
I made haste on Sunday morning to get out of there before the deluge & I must say I was a bit concerned. As we started up the slope, the Mercedes Benz designed traction system applied the brake to the rear wheel that 1st started to slip & the "Mango Express" clawed right up the steep little slope on the wet but still firm turf like a champ.
I was still getting stares of disbelief as I reached the gravel drive @ the top of that grassy slope & exited the archery club driveway.
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PowerWagon896
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05/15/08 08:37am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Fast Cars?
In today's gas prices I would like to stay in a 4 banger vs a V8 Mustang or Vette. The Speed 3 does 0-60 in 6 secs but 26 mpg cruising on the freeway.
Am I on the right track?
That's about what a 5.7 powered LX (300c, Charger R/T or Magnum R/T) does for 0-60 & highway MPG.
And they make great medium duty tow vehicles if you stay withen or @ least close to the 380/3800# weight rating.
You can turn it into a low 12s car W/O sacrificing the fuel economy or towing capabilities too.
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PowerWagon896
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05/14/08 11:35pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
I dug up this video shot in August of "06" when the car was near stock W/just a plug in tuner, Mopar Performance long tube headers/high flow cats, a 175*F TSTAT & a manual fan control
At the begining of the clip, you will hear a funky sounding shift caused by my inept throttle manipulation during a manual input upshift on a short but steep grade @ low speed.
All of the subsequent shift are normal.
The footage was shot by my son W/a small hand held digi camera from the back seat. The image does bob around a bit. This is not idicative of the vehicle's ride other than maybe showing that it does have a firm stance on the highway. The bobbing is not due to the trailer in any way.
You will notice though, that even when passing & being passed by semi tractor rigs @ 70 MPH on interstate highways, there is no sway whatsoever.
The clip is a bit long @ 17+ minutes but if you can keep from getting bored, there is some great footage & some great audio compliments of the standard equipment, Daytona package, 320 watt Boston Acoustics stereo/Sirius satelite radio not to mention the best music of all, that 5.7 Hemi purring through those Mopar Performance long tube headers/cats & stock Daytona exhaust as it gleefully flexes it's muscles just a bit.
There are several scenes depicting near effortless acceleration while passing (safely) on a 2 lane highway, & entering trafic via on ramps.
I also got shots while pulling a long moderate grade doing 70 MPH @ 2400 RPM. I read out the instrument data (EVIC) on throttle position & coolant temperature while pulling that grade in the August heat. I think you will be surprized @ the readings.
Okay, get thet popcorn you popped while I was getting this text lined out, turn up the volume & listen to that 5.7 Hemi purr.
Click here to watch Buffalo-Trip-Towing-With-The-Daytona
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PowerWagon896
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05/14/08 09:42am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
Interesting to see where the "safer" Suburban's & 3/4 ton diesel finished though.
I think I could give that Jag a run for his money
How about braking? Got any data on that?
I'm sure the Jag would be hard to equal, but what about those trucks?
PW, will see what I can find on braking. There may be some data lurking around somewhere.
Sure the large heavy trucks do not handle like a sports sedans but with all do respect many of these vehicles have very large payload capacities and the ability to carry on their backs certain loads the cars can't. There is no perfect TV to please everyone.
Well I never tried to imply that a sedan was right for all situations, but it was the "my truck can pull that (my) trailer just as fast & a lot safer" comments that arroused my curiousity as to real world braking performance W/a moderate sized TT..
Of course I expect that we will soon see the "conspirousy theory" posts soon enough.
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PowerWagon896
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05/14/08 08:44am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
The worlds fastest TV???
Straight line acceleration is one thing and overall handling is another.
It appears that in the interest of safety, science, and performance some on track, closed circuit TV testing was done not to long ago.
Various vehicles were "professionally connected" to test their towing prowess. The tests were emergency maneuvering and lane changes.
The high end Jaguar sport sedan with it's "CAT" suspension system, and wide ultra performance tires was quicker through the course when compared to the 300C Hemi. No doubt PW's Charger would be quicker than the 300C but would it be at the level of the Jag??????
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/CF105/IMG_5281789e.jpg?t=1210767753
Maybe not, but the stock Daytona as well as the Road & Track versions of the Charger & Magnum R/T have a much improved suspension & steering compared to the 300C.
Interesting to see where the "safer" Suburbans & 3/4 ton diesel finished though.
I think I could give that Jag a run for his money
How about braking? Got any data on that?
I'm sure the Jag would be hard to equal, but what about those trucks?
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PowerWagon896
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05/14/08 08:04am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
OK everybody... Time to take a deep breath, and
http://media.funlol.com/content/img/lighten-up-baby.jpg
Seriously, PowerWagon came here to share his experience about his fast, fun to drive car, that happens to be a good tow vehicle. I don't think he's here trying to convert the rest of to car drivers. But, please consider what he has shared with us, and realize there's more than one horse that can pull a cart.
I would also like to appologize for letting some of the forum members getting under my skin.
A lack of patience is perhaps 1 of my worst (But not only) character flaws.
In retrospect, I can see where the title might have seemed arrogant, but I did pose it as a question to provoke dicussion & It looks like I was wildly sucessful in that respect.
I never set out to ridicule anyone else's life stye choices but when mine were ridiculeled, I gave in to the temtatioon to return the favor.
On the positive side, I learned a lot & recieved (in my mind @ least) as many if not more, positive responses as I did negative.
I also got the opportunity to make the online aquantance of some very interesting & knowledgeable characters & that includes some of those that disagreed W/my choices.
So what it all boils down to is that there is more than one way to skin a cat & W/the rising cost of feul, I hope that I may have brought to light some alternatives to abondoning the RVs or doing it W/some of the less exciting choices in tow vehicles.
I think I might just hang around this site for a while
BTW, Here's the timeslip of my best run. (sans trailer of course) It was an outright N/A 5.7 powered LX record @ the time & still holds the N/A 5.7 powered Charger record.
That's me in the left lane. Even though I blew by the other car @ the finish line, I lost because I "broke out" & ran faster than my "dial in" in this quarterfinal race, but I was still tickled to death.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/PowerWagon896/17NovTimeslip001.jpg
Click here to see the "Mango Express" in action against a mid 13 second Daytona. (turn up the volume)
Dr. Jekyll
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/PowerWagon896/LebanonValley002.jpg
Mr. Hyde
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/PowerWagon896/LebanonValley001-1.jpg
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PowerWagon896
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05/14/08 07:54am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
I imagine that OTR truckers, and UKE drivers that haul much more than your puny 80,000 pounds would have their sites as well.
Well 1st of all, hauling "dead frieght", regardless of the payload is a far cry from hauling cattle & 2nd, that ain't you pal!
Oh and by the way, I spent some time as an OTR trucker too. Pretty tame compared to loading your own payload on the hoof & putting them down the road.
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PowerWagon896
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05/13/08 07:39pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
PowerWagon896, are you related to Supercharged?
No, I dson't think so. As far as I know I have no relations on this forum.
May inquire as to why you asked?
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PowerWagon896
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05/13/08 07:19pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
Who is the well known towing professional that you have made reference to ?
I see there are two stories in this thread. One from the Detroit Auto Show and another from Brandon. I'm not convinced by stories .
Les
Have a look here Les. Post #28 should answer your question and provide you with some interesting data concerning the Dodge Charger RT and how it would compare with a full size Pick Up.
Post #28 and reference to Charger
Very informative post on that forum.
There is one misconception contained in that post #28.
While the refferenced "performance packge" (Daytona or Road & Track package R/T) does make a more capable TV due to it's stiffer load leveling suspention, the "standard Hemi" reference is a bit misinformed.
While it is true that the R&T and Daytonas put out 10 more HP than the "Standard Hemi" it is due entirely to a better SRT style air intake & a bit more free flowing exhaust. There would not be enough of a difference in TQ to make any appreciable difference in pulling power.
The 6.1 SRT versions are less capable not only due to the decreased fuel economy as referenced, but they also have lowered suspension making dragging the hitch a frequent liklyhood and as it comes from the factory, the SRT has a lot less low end TQ & that is reflected in the slower 60' time @ the track even though they make up for it & then some once they get rolling. An aftermarket cam that replaces that low end TQ would make the 6.1 as capable as the 5.7, but not any more capable.
In fact, once aftermarket cams, heads, etc.are introduced, there is virtually no differnce in HP potential between the 5.7 & 6.1, maybe 25 HP @ best & the 300+# heavier weight of the SRT version negates any advantage gained through that 25 HP increase.
As far as 20" wheels? My 1st year Daytona has 18" wheels & does just fine. Besides, the tires that come on the 20" wheels are a lower aspect ratio anyway & are not much more than 1/2" larger in diameter.
Very interesting that they claim the Daytona out performs the Toyota Tundra as a TV too.
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PowerWagon896
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05/13/08 12:51pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
Once again let me say this. Hook a 12000 pound 5th wheel or GN up to that car and see how much better it performs than a truck.
Great, post a link where I can get me one of those set ups for my Charger & I will give it a whirl.:R
Ahhh, the whole idea of the "high performance sedan TV" is really not to break the land speed record towwing (Remember, the title was posted as a question?) but to haul a "real load" of 3500# or so that is perfectly adequete & comfortable for wifey & me & then, when unhooked, have an enjoyable fast, great handling sedan to ENJOY some spirited driving on some twisty mountain roads or getting up to 27 MPG just cruising around if I choose to. DUH! :h
I'll bet that beheamoth you use to tow your 12,000# "toy load" (see my last post) is a real hoot to drive "enthusiasticly" when it ain't hitched up.. Or do you just sit in the campground & drink beer when you're not towing your "manly" 12000# trailer.
Oh yeah, how about when you have to leave your trailer @ the campground & make a trip to the grocery store when it raining like PI$$ pouring out of a boot & all you can find are some cramped parking spaces that you can't get you "big rig" into? I can park near the store while you are relegated to the back 40.:S
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PowerWagon896
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05/12/08 11:45pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
And by centering that weight over the rear axle, don't you think that the front axle will now also bear more weight compared to a bumper hitch sans WD equipment?
Just as it does on a semi tractor/trailer rig.
It acheives the same thing that a WD hitch does.
Or perhaps a better way to put is that a WD emulates a 5th wheel rig.
And just what did you prove by that post anyway?
Just your lack of understanding of what the physics or trailering & axle loading really are.
A 5th wheel does not distribute weight at all. Do a search on this forum for people that have posted axle weights from their truck with the trailer hitched and unhitched. The pin weight is on the rear axle. If you would like, when I get home tonight, I can post the CAT scale weights from my setup.
So if the weight distributing hitch emulates a 5th wheel, I wonder why some are paying the huge premium for the Hensley or the Pull-rite? The main advantage of the 5th wheel (for towing) is not weight distribution. It is the pivot point is at the rear axle. The wheel base to overhang ratio that Andy T talks about is 0.
And, if you would let your ego deflate a bit you would see that the original rig in question was a 2 horse trailer. I had no use for a 5th wheel rig as it would be inefficient to haul 2 horses in.
Oh, but if I used a 5th wheel rig, then I could have given the horses much more room to move about thereby making for a more unstable rig, thereby requiring the "heavier tow vehicle" etc, etc.
I used to be amused @ horse people that would buy goose neck stock trailers to haul their horses in. The rig would be so unstable due to the lack of confinement of the horses in tow that they would go out & spend thousands of dollar to "upgrade" their tow vehicle because they chose to save a few hudred dollars by buying the improper trailer to begin with.
Not only did they waste money buying more tow vehicle that neccessary, they now threw more of their hard eaned cash driving some gas guzzling hard to manuver beheamoth in their daily errands because they could not afford a deicated TV.
Talk about spending a dollar to save a dime.
What are you talking about? To be honest, I have yet to hear somebody complaining about stability problems with a gooseneck. It is so much more difficult for the trailer to induce lateral movements on the TV with the pivot point being at the rear axle. Most horse trainers that I know (we are not talking about cattle ranchers) use slant load trailers. From the ones that I have seen, the interior dimensions are basically the same for bumper pulls and goosenecks. I would call the horse confinement a wash either way.
Besides stability, a huge advantage that a gooseneck trailer gives over a bumper pull is the tack room space. You get way more storage space with a gooseneck. That is the main reason my wife wanted a gooseneck.
You know Jim this is the last time I am going to respond to your posts as for some reason, & this is not meant sarcasticly, you fail to comprehend what is written right in front of your face.
To start with I never said my Durango W/it's WD hitch was superior to a 5er, I just said that a 5er wasn't neccessary to tow a 7000# load of horses in a properly equiped horse trailer safely & effectively.
In your last post you went on about how stable goosneck HORSE trailers were when I specificly referenced to people hauling unstable loads of horses in a STOCK trailer. That is S-T-O-C-K Jim not H-O-R-S-E trailer.
And since when is the kingpin ALWAYS located directly over the rear axle Jim?
Oh & emulate in plain common language means to try to copy or imitate, not neccessarily equal. Look up emulate in the dictionary would ya Jim
And if 5th wheels do not distribute weight to the front axle, ask the trucker why he is shifting his 5th wheel (they're NOT ALWAYS RIGIDLY MOUNTED over the rear axle or otherwise either Jim) to re-disribute his load so as to not exceed a particular axle weight limit, including the steering axle, when he crosses the scales. Maybe he shifted the weight from or to the steering axle to improve the ride. Every time you change the geometry regardiong the hitch point, you re-distribute weight & that includes the steering axle.
There's no doubt that you know a lot about your rig but there is also a lot you do not know about 5th wheels.
Yes, your gooseneck has a lot of desirable attributes but so does a properly set up WD bumper hitch horse trailer.
And you novices that think 12,000# is a "real" load, try hauling a 60,000# trailer load of cattle up through the hills & hollers of Kentucky on a twisty turning 2 lane road you never saw before W/steep grades, all the while listening to the rivets snapping & popping on the deck supports while the air bags on your driver's leaf springs are inflating & blowing off trying desperately to keep the rig stable. Drive that way for 80 miles literally in a half standing crouch so that you can jump to the high side if she goes over while you pray that one of those air bags doesn't let go or the rivets in the deck supports let loose collapsing the whole load of cattle on the upper deck or dropping the ones in the "possun belly" onto the pavement.
Or try locking your rear tandems down on a similarly loaded trailer going down a snow slicked grade that you misjudged & negleted to shift your 13 speed manual transmission to the low side for even though you slowed to an idle @ 20 MPH @ the top. Those tractor brakes are useless now! The last thing you want to do is apply ANY of the tractor brakes or the trailer will beat you to the bottom. And as the speed reaches a point where the governor won't let that 400 HP 883 cibic inch "H" block Cummins rev past 2300 RPM, the driver tandems start hopping & when you look in your mirrors you can see the trailer start to swing out as it tries to pass you.
You don't dare try a "spit shift" to the next higher gear so you just double clutch & jamb the shifter into the next slot effectively shifting 2 gears higher, riding that out until the whole hopping drivers, swinging trailer, shift to next slot scene plays itself out 2 more times. And as you level out @ the bottom of the steepest part of the grade, you slide through a narrow truss bridge over a wide river @ 60 MPH & you reach up & grab the air horn to warn any one in the small town you are about to careen through, not really totally out of control, but @ the mercy of gravity & limited traction.
Fortunately the sleepy little town streets are deserted @ 3:00 AM so you continue sliding through town to a large parking lot @ the bottom of the now leveling out 2nd less severe grade finally coming to a stop in the middle of the deserted shopping center parking lot.
When you have coped W/those sort of situations & countless others perhaps less harrowing but still nerve racking situations & survived non the worse for wear, W/O doing harm to anyone then you can say that you have experienced pulling "real loads".
Until then don't try to talk down to me because I choose to pull a small easily manuvered & parked trailer, not because I can't handle a bigger rig but because I just don't want or need such a rig.
And in the near future when $4 a galon gas is just a fond memory I will still be enjoying my small efficient rig & my high performance sedan on twisting mountain roads when I un-hook to explore the scenery around my campsite while many of you will be hard pressed to justify the expense of venturing out W/your 12,000# "real load" trailers.
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PowerWagon896
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05/12/08 10:26pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
I think that perhaps loading, hauling & unloading over 80,000 head of stock over 500,000 miles qualifies me as an expert in this feild.
At least more quaified than someone that "is around horse people on a regular basis" & has owned as many as 3 horses @ a time.
Well maybe and then again maybe not.
And yes hardly any of them had the insight to see that the "heavy tow vehicle" was nothing more than a band aid for poorly selected & applied equipment. Few if any of them had a clue as to what a load distributor hitch actually did so of course they went for the bigger is better solution. If they had anywhere near as much experience as you give them credit for, they would have realized that putting most of the trailer weight on the rear suspension, no matter how "heavy duty" will be much more unstable than having more of that weight over the steering axle. That is why 5th wheel trailers are so affective, but I hardly think 7000# is in the 5th wheel realm of neccessity.
Since you are such a self-proclaimed expert, where do you think all the weight from a 5th wheel pin goes? Hint: it is sitting directly over the rear axle. You may want to rethink this if your ego allows you do such a thing.
And by centering that weight over the rear axle, don't you think that the front axle will now also bear more weight compared to a bumper hitch sans WD equipment?
Just as it does on a semi tractor/trailer rig.
It acheives the same thing that a WD hitch does.
Or perhaps a better way to put is that a WD emulates a 5th wheel rig.
And just what did you prove by that post anyway?
Just your lack of understanding of what the physics or trailering & axle loading really are.
And, if you would let your ego deflate a bit you would see that the original rig in question was a 2 horse trailer. I had no use for a 5th wheel rig as it would be inefficient to haul 2 horses in.
Oh, but if I used a 5th wheel rig, then I could have given the horses much more room to move about thereby making for a more unstable rig, thereby requiring the "heavier tow vehicle" etc, etc.
I used to be amused @ horse people that would buy goose neck stock trailers to haul their horses in. The rig would be so unstable due to the lack of confinement of the horses in tow that they would go out & spend thousands of dollar to "upgrade" their tow vehicle because they chose to save a few hudred dollars by buying the improper trailer to begin with.
Not only did they waste money buying more tow vehicle that neccessary, they now threw more of their hard eaned cash driving some gas guzzling hard to manuver beheamoth in their daily errands because they could not afford a deicated TV.
Talk about spending a dollar to save a dime.
The Durango @ 5500# W/the proper equipment did nicely thank you.
I can see where caddywhompus gets the "head in the sand" reference.
Yes, a 5th wheel rig is the most stable rig but it is not needed to achieve safe effecient towwing W/the lighter trailers.
If the commercial trucking industry used the same TV/trailer wieght ratio most of you RVers want to use the trucking industry would cease to exist & the railroads would flourish.
Let's see. people on this forum implied that my 4200# TV was inadequate to tow a 3500# trailer.
So lets "upgrade" (or downgrade might be a better word) to a 6500# TV.
That's a 65%/35% ratio.
OK, now we have an 80,000 tractor trailer rig.
Applying the 65%/35% logic, in order to be "safe" the tractor would need to weigh 52,000# leaving just 28,000# for trailer & payload.
Since we now will be hauling a fraction of the payload weight perhaps an 8,000# trailer would suffice leavinmg 20,000# for payload compared to a very conservative 48,000# or about 42% of the current payload capacity.
THAT would increase the cost of over the road shipment by 240%
Even @ a 50/50 TV/trailer weight ratio, it would be a 160% increase in costs.
Couple either of those scenerios W/rising feul costs & where would we be?
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PowerWagon896
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05/12/08 01:57pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: World's Fastest Tow Vehicle?
...I upgraded to a low milage used Dodge Durango W/a 318, trailering package & 3.93 gears. I eventually used that Durango extensivly to tow a 2 horse trailer W/tack room hauling an 1100# mare & 1700# gelding. All of the other horse people thought a big block Suburban or diesel rig was needed to pull that 7000# paylod but the little 318, properly geared using a 900/10,000# load distributing hitch went to 109,000 miles w/only a front pad replacement in all that time. That was it, no other repairs in the 100,000 mile I owned it. I replaced the OEM battery, spark plugs & wires just before I sold it, but I consider those routine maintenance considering the miles.
What was really interesting to me was the various safety warnings made by well meaning but mis-infomed souls that thought a 6000# big block truck was neccessary to safely tow & stop a 3500# trailer.
...
This is actually pretty funny. I am around horse people on a regular basis. My wife and I have owned as many as three horses at one time, and currently own one. If you are towing horses, usually you are not going anywhere fast. Gradual acceleration, no sudden lane changes, slow stopping are the norm. If you see someone pulling high dollar horses around, they are not driving like they are in a NASCAR race. Kind of hard to believe that they were ALL pushing the big block. Now what I can easily see them recommending is a full-sized truck. The reason for that is if the weight in the trailer was to shift. Many believe that the full-sized truck with a heavy duty suspension can handle the weight shifting better than a smaller tow vehicle.
So lets think about this. You are driving down the road, and pulling your horse trailer. Something spooks your big gelding and it decides that it wants out of the horse trailer now. I’ll bet that horse could get that 2-horse bumper pull rocking pretty good. Most ranchers and horse trainers would rather be in a full sized truck (3/4-ton+) than your Durango at that moment. Too bad they are mis-informed though.
Your post makes a lot more sense to me. I understand that the two most dangerous loads, because of unpredictable load shifting, are livestock and liquid loads, especially partially loaded tankers with the load sloshing to the other side of the tanker if you make too many sudden moves.
Les
Lots of testosterone in this thread.
:B
Speaking from more experience hauling livestock than perhaps 99% of the folks on this forum, I can say that your reference to "partialy loaded tankers" applies doubly to hauling live stock.
A properly loaded live stock trailer, achieved through distributing the stock into compartments that keep them in reasonably close proximity to each other as in the case of compartmentalized 43' or longer double deck stock trailers, all but eliminates the shifting of weight.
In the case of a 2 horse trailer such as I owned, using dividers & chest bars that most people seem to dismiss, also eliminate or vastly reduce the shifting of weight through limiting the animals ability to move about.
Again, proper equipment such as the trailer's ability to limit livestock movement and the proper WD hitch on a vecle that is adequate & effecient @ the job make for a lot more stable set up than a poorly maintained/utilized trailer trying to use the band-aid of a larger, heavier tow vehicle W/O the proper equipment.
I think that perhaps loading, hauling & unloading over 80,000 head of stock over 500,000 miles qualifies me as an expert in this feild.
At least more quaified than someone that "is around horse people on a regular basis" & has owned as many as 3 horses @ a time.
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PowerWagon896
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05/11/08 10:56pm |
Tow Vehicles
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